Brady getting the Fury from not wanting to fight with the Princess is very funny because it reminds me of that one meme:
The Myth of Consensual Beating The Shit Out Of Each Other
Voice of the Stubborn: "I consent"
The Adversary: "I consent"
Voice of the Therapist: "I don't."
Isn't there someone you forgot to ask?
The only thing that bothers the Cold is boredom. It's why he goads both the player and the other voices to action, even if that action is self-destructive. With no feelings of his own, he experiences things vicariously through the player's actions. That seems to be why he holds more contempt for the Narrator than any other voice; the Narrator's "reward" for you is an unchanging world where you never act or experience anything. That world is the only one in which the Cold actually experiences eternal suffering.
talking about codependency with the adversary is not something i expected but makes so much sense, one of the most heartbreaking things she can say at one point is "what am i suposed to do without you"
There's something you didn't catch about what the fury did to you. At the very start, she said she would be doing to us what we did to her. What exactly is that? Well, what happened was that we changed her. All the things she was got replaced with all the things she later became, as a result of our actions. That's (partially) what that whole sequence was about. We were being repeatedly taken apart and reconstructed. Being ship of theseused into different, unrecognisable forms to the point where we can no longer be considered the same person we once were.
Oh my god... The corrupted footage made you replay the most visceral route... As you said, your least favourite route, specifically because of sounds and imagery... Just to get those back for a video... Of all the routes... Back to the flesh cabin you go, Brady!
That is dedication... I applaud you for putting up with so much for us...
I had a feeling that, if Brady got to The Fury, he would get it through "pacifism" with Adversary. Good to see I was correct. R.I.P. to his ears tho, we know the meat sounds made him suffer.
Man, this chapter is a personal roller coaster of feelings. I don't know, the thematic of trying to get back that which once gave you pleasure in life or in a relationship and just failing is very touching to me. I also love how you technically get a taste of what being the Princess is like; the torture is not just Fury trying to hurt you for funsies, she's trying to show you how much it pains her to become something she did not want, something she finds lesser, disgusting, unsatisfied, and depending of the voices you have during the torture? You're unable to withstand it. In a way, the Long Quiet, the player, cannot truly bear the weight of being a creature that physically and mentally changes to the whims of someone else's perception, unless he has a voice that has either overwhelming empathy and desire to understand the other, like Voice of the Broken, or is so confident and secure in its own identity that the destruction and maiming of physicality deals no damage to the self-image, like Voice of the Cold.
Speaking of Cold, what a chapter this one is to recontextualize his character. It's so easy to fall into the trap he's just an unfeeling edgy asshole that is completely fine all the time, but fuck, when he looks at Fury and sees himself in her it answers so much of what is so twisted in him: he's a lonely and sad and hurting and empty individual that longs to connect with something lost that he can't get back, but also refuses to show the vulnerability necessary to make said connections and locks his feelings and pains away from the world, making it so that the only way for him to feel alive is through the endless pursuit of novelty, even if it's harmful and violent towards him. No wonder he was head over heels for Fury the moment he saw her.
And Brady is right, Cold IS a very powerful voice, although his powers are more on the passive side. He doesn't manipulate the reality of the construct like Paranoid and Smitten do (because part of his character is accepting reality for what it is), nor does he bring you from the dead like Stubborn does, but he's just so naturally determined and (morbidly) curious in seeing what new things tomorrow brings that he'll take any situation head-on no matter how grim it looks; he's like a shield, old and dented and scarred, but still sturdy and unbroken.
Hey so uhhhhh do I bill you for the emotional scarring at 26:30, or do you bill me for the free therapy? Because last week I literally went into my first session saying, "I love my husband, but I just feel so hurt and it has nowhere to go because I feel like I can't talk to him, and if I ever think about leaving, it's terrifying because without him, I have nothing."
I haven't even finished the video yet, but I just wanted to say a simultaneous thank you for clarifying exactly what I haven't been able to identify in myself, and fuck you for making me sob in the car on the way to work. My mascara is fucked, but my heart feels lighter, so I suppose it's a net positive in the end
This was an interesting point of view for the adversary route! I, for one, am still hoping you do 100% this game because eventually you'll need to collect the adversary version 1 as she is when she first wants to fight you so badly. And in my humble opinion, if you follow the stubborn's guidance, I think that is the closest you can get to..... fffffffrolicking with the princess. Making like rabbits with the princess. If you catch my drift. After playing that route and collecting the adversary I interpreted the stone basement as ahem primal rather than cold.
The suggestiveness of the adversary is interesting layer on top of what you're saying and what you discovered in the Fury route tbh. because you absolutely called the player and the princess being fixated on each other. I think complicated relationships plus intense physical attraction could be an interesting conversation because I'm sure that's a common problem. And it's also not necessarily a problem. A man like stubborn gets along juuuuust fine with the adversary and can find something incredibly fulfilling ;) But if you AREN'T the exact right person to meet that freak... well, i think this route beautifully illustrates a VERY interesting and surprisingly sweet reminder that a perfect match isn't required. You have to meet your partner as they are and get out of your own way AND their way and let things be. Love them for who they are.
I'm having a hard time not seeing the adversary and her potential to become the fury as a very poignant parallel between people who love each other but are incompatible in passion but that doesn't mean love and a relationship is impossible. As an asexual person, that's a very interesting conversation to have.
But, that's my interpretation of the adversary. We'll see if you agree.
Also, for the record, this route became HARDCORE after the dlc update wow. That was insane.
I really like the version of this route with the Broken instead of the Cold because, where most routes have him as the pity party, here you get to see how empathic his suffering makes him at bottom. He knows suffering when he sees it and is doing his best to help.
The Broken - "It's okay to let go."
The Hero - "Then I'm letting go."
The Narrator - "I'm tired."
The Broken - "I know."
The reason the fury keeps asking the long quiet "Are you still you?" us is actually about the common thought experiment "Ship of Theseus"! For those who don't know, the ship of Theseus gets a part of it switched one by one at a time. The question is if the ship is still the same ship when no original part of it remains! This is what the princess is doing, changing/ destroying one cell at a time, trying to figure out at which point the long quiet stops being the same as when we started; henceforth the question "Are you still you?"
One thing: when you're meeting Shifty again, I'm BEGGING you to resist her until a certain voice shows up. Follow his lead, at least initially. Because you started this playthrough with getting the Stranger, you can unlock a very special character development for another voice.
I wish you got that route with Broken because he's my favorite and i think it's his best moment. (spoilers for that below, and although i don't think you'll replay this exact thing with a different voice, some viewers might) But i think it's also a very good moment for Cold so i'm not mad :) you did get some healing, although the path there was treacherous
But with Broken, that route is a lot more soft. He comforts the voices when they get tortured and tell them it's ok to let go, he comforts you and tells you he's staying by your side until the end, and he even comforts the Narrator when you're leaving the cabin. And I won't say too much about Broken's other appearances because you haven't seen them yet, but he obviously represents deep pain and trauma. And i think having Broken using this deep pain he has as a tool to help other people go through their pain is very beautiful
Another view I see of the Fury besides the relationship angle is the princess experience changing. Your perception changes her to something that matches you, like a perfect Adversary. You denying her that purpose forces her to change into something different she doesnt want to.
Its like Hero says "What does "you" even mean anymore? We keep changing into horrible things we cant control. Please make it stop. Please make it stop. Please make it stop"
The princess might feel like this too, since she has little control over what she becomes, its all on us. So in the Fury she repays us all that pain to force us to see what she sees.
My favorite thing about The Fury are it's connections to The Ship of Theseus, which fit perfectly with this chapters themes of self identity. The Ship of Theseus is constantly getting it's old pieces replaced with new one's, until every piece of the original ship has been replaced. Is it even The Ship of Theseus at that point? Likewise, in this rout our body is constantly changing and reforming into something else.
Are you still you?
What are you to begin with? Are you your body? Your brain? Your heart? Your thoughts and feelings? Your consciousness or soul?
What I think we are, beyond all of that, is our memories. Like the ship, each cell in our bodies dies and then a new cell is born to replace that one. The "you" you are now is made up of completely different stuff than the "you" many years ago. All of us are constantly changing every day, be it physically, mentally, or emotionally. But it's our memories in between those changes that binds everything together. And with those memories, I know that I'll be me no matter what.
While the voice of the Hero and Stubborn both lost their self identity through the struggle, even the Fury herself is slowly degrading further and further as time goes on. I'm always glad that the voice of the Cold is there with us till the very end.
This codependency was my parents constantly fighting constantly talking about the past and they were invested in EVERYTHING the other did so much they started to resent it later when i was born. Constant anger constantly fighting. I put two and two together real quick and promised if i ever saw myself becoming my parents i would COMUNICATE with my partner. And now that i have we did have that “you don’t do (insert thing here) anymore are you pulling away from me?” Talk and honestly it’s an amazing thing to be able to have that your their heart and they are yours without the circles completely overlapping!
As a med student the face you make at the "fleshy" cabin amuses me immensely. In my opinion these growths look like the small intestine/viceral fat which I appreciate a lot :)
A little piece of advice for your next encounter with the Echo of Narrator in the mirror : a lot of the most interesting questions are hidden behind others.
To unlock almost all options in the dialogue tree, I would recommend to ask one question about Her (what is she ?), yourself (what I am ?) and himself.
There is a lot of interesting tidbits here and there. A favorite of mine is asking why the Princess couldn't have been a piece of soggy bread. I won't tell what he says, but his answer is surprisingly interesting for such a silly question.
what really got me in this route was her repeatedly sayin, "are you still there? are you still you?" because after a while, she sounded dejected. Like this wasn't the outcome she expected nor wanted. Just the slow realization of reality setting in of you aren't gonna give her what she wants.
Also let me unravel here what happened with you and Fury, because your mistake in trying to predict the route comes from your profession - you tried to approach your decision from a therapist view, but the game is written with an average untrained person in mind.
Where a trained specialist would back down from a fight to take another - better - way, an ordinary person doesn't have the luxury of knowing that this other way exists (that's why they need you to show them this other way). Now ask yourself - why would an ordinary person suddenly back out of a confrontation that they previously had so many times it became a habit?
They do this when they break. When the realization hits that things will never get better, that this is how it would play out from now on till the day you die.
At this point, is there any sense in trying... well... anything?
This is why you get Cold as your companion voice if you do this. This is why Adversary sounds so confused and then so lost - these fights you've been having became so much a part of your life they became the norm, the usual, something reliable, something unpleasant, but at the same time comforting in its consistency. And then you stopped playing your part for seemingly no reason. And she, who pretty much put her all life into these fights, was now left without a purpose and without an excuse. What happened? Is it because she did something wrong? Is it because you found somebody else, better than her?
And thoughts like these... they are a very slippery slope, prone to spiraling. And that's exactly what tends to happen in such relationships, and exactly what happened to her - she tortured herself into that horrific form. And this is why Cold is somewhat happy to see her, it's the kind of sick excitement you get when you're so tired of numbness you'd happily accept a nuke dropped on your head purely because it would be change of scenery.
Important note for HEA, the final encounter with the narrator has a unique dialogue option if you take that route.
Also do you think that trying to appeal to the shifting mound's humanity at the end is a good way to end this?
no wonder those impossible demands never sat well with me especially when I need specifics to understand something -- *they're impossible demands*. it's as useless as telling someone to calm down bc, more often than not, that just raises the tension
That's my first time hearing the voice line of Stubborn calling Cold a "chilly little freak"... fitting, since we just had Princess call him a "cold little freak" last episode. He just can't catch a break lately xD
Also, I know you're disappointed she wasn't as much of a cutie pie, but hey... doesn't the Fury have such long, pretty hair~
HAH! 1:09:19 "In the end, we're all just meat." I am SO sure that Jonny had a good time reading out that line. xD It is the core premise of 1/15th of his original horror podcast lololol
Knowing Brady's dislike of flesh stuff, I screamed out loud OH NO as soon as I saw the words The Fury. Props for going back to the game and rerecording the footage, that mustve sucked
i think an interesting thing with this analysis is the the dynamic with the adversary only really becomes this type of unhealthy codependence when you don't want the same thing. when you do and you fight each other forever, you find something that works for you and you both enjoy and so the story is complete, and she returns to the shifting mound. every other route stems from not wanting to do that
The Adversary: Muscle Mommy
The Fury: Muscle Mommy
Also, what do you guys think would be the worst combination of voices? I would say probably Cold + Contrarian.
The fury route used to be one of my least favorites, but ever since the pristine cut update, it got significantly better. Much more interesting dynamic, and more unique dialog depending on how you reach the route.
This one really hit close to home. At times I felt like this describes my dynamic with my wife, we are always finding the reasons why we are so offended and hurt by each other, but lack the ability to truly communicate our desires to each other. We want large change, but have no idea how to enact it.
@56:05 Remember, the Cold is here to protect you by helping you detach from what you're doing!
Killing someone in 'cold blood' is the sort of cruelty that leaves one feeling numb. And, likewise, lying still and letting someone else kill you requires a certain type of detachment too! So when you choose a route that involves detaching yourself, you get the Cold.
I am jealous of Brady's lack of personal familiarity with the Cold. For me, I don't really resonate with the voice of the Opportunist, but I very much resonate with the Voice of the Cold. When your situation is awful and it feels like no matter what you do, there will be pain, the Cold is here to make sure you don't feel a thing! Hurray! (It's awful!)
(To be clear, this was my reaction to the Fury too. The 'Ewwww whyyyyy' but then, I ended up here from a completely different Chapter 2, one you haven't seen yet.) The theme behind the Fury seems to be 'I build the princes to be [BIG] only to make her feel [small.]
I politely disagree on the Adversary. It didn't give me co-dependency, it felt like the only route we were actually equal. We both saw fighting as something good, like a dance, if's fun for both, and we wanted that equality. She became a Fury and suffered when she didn't get that.
I might actually think it's one of the healthiest routes in the game.
I love the imagery of the adversary and fury both having "wings" as the wall behind them, seemingly sprouting from their backs, matching the devilish tail and the narrator/player's bird-like body. They are really trying to be our equals in many ways.
I was praying for The Fury route of the pristine cute but also since Brady's mentioned his adversion to body horror I didn't wish him to go through it, BUT I'M SO HAPPY WE HAVE IT! (I'm also so sorry for you)
If The Fury with Cold is the most direct and cunning way to go about this princess, then I feel like The Broken section (personal favorite) is an exercise in compasion and patience.
LETS FREAKING GOOOOOOOOOOO, Firstly i want to thank you for doing this, even though you get squeamish about meat sounds, but the fury is my all time favorite princess. Thank you for playing it!
It's worth noting that if you get to the Fury differently without the Cold, you won't be able to persist through the torture and it will result in a different ending that doesn't have the same sense of healing. You're right when you say he's one of the most powerful voices.
I genuinely love how QUALITY the channel is, because as someone who will (Hopefully) be a psychology major next year the insight you bring to each princess is extremely interesting and has lead me to delving even deeper than I would've outside of high school classes.
Also would deeply appreciate if you can recommend some media relating to psychology as someone not very knowledgable of the topic!!!
fucking Adversary leading into Fury with Voice Of The Cold is crazy
in a good way
also, fun fact, this version of The Fury is from The Pristine Cut, she along with The Den, and The Apotheosis got updated with extra scenes
31:37 funnily enough adversary actually does never cheat.
she waits for you to get ready for a fight before charging, she doesn't resort to using any supernatural abilities beyond her strength and skill, she doesn't even trick or deceive you in any way at all.
I've interpreted that as her seeing you as an equal (a worthy adversary, if you will), and not wanting to ruin it.
55:56 I think the reason you get the cold is because of the fact you're actively ignoring the princess and your own wishes, instead of actually communicating you ignore her, you're not creating a compromise you're ignoring her which creates the cold, who's doing something just so he can see what happens without care for the feelings of others or his own
20:35 well that is me, but luckily they aren't that hyperfpcused on me.... I mean I know that that is important, but in moments of insecurity, I get scared they don't love me anymore and it's all just a game of play pretend.... I gotta get out of that mindset, because what Brady said here is true- it comes from my own insecurity. And now I am scared of ruining my relationship. Oh well
One quick thing with Happily Ever After's route btw. If it's the last route before awakening Shifty, you miss out on a bit of really good dialogue from Shifty on that princess. Just if you wanted to reload an earlier save to see that end dialogue and view it in it's entirety too :D
Did you know that there's a thing in the settings that allows you to turn the sound effects down separately from the music and voice acting? That probably would have made this chapter a lot easier to go through.
I see a lot of comments that recommend you to not do HEA last, and while I agree that the Shifting Mound comment on the vessel is beautiful, please do as you choose to. There's a lot of pressure to respond to the expectations of players. HEA is a fantastic chapter to end a run with, and more importantly your own insight and decisions is what makes your playthrough one of the most captivating I've seen.
Happily Ever After might be best as your final princess, I know everyone is eager to see this route, but as the last of the Pristine Cut princesses and the last on the Chibi Princess screen, I feel like it was designed to be played last. In full support of whatever you choose though, gonna be great no matter what.
Honestly this route kind of changed my world view. It just makes sense to me having an adversary promotes growth. If you can throw yourself against a challenge you can grow stronger. I think one of the most difficult things to do then is defining the adversary to face. If it isn't simple and obvious then it just becomes standard hardship.
20:45 my best friend and I talk a lot about relationships and stuff, especially since he got a girlfriend and whenever we talk about codependency, I come to the conclusion that his perception of love is so much different than mine. He and his girlfriend spent much time together, though they don’t need to. they don’t have the feeling that they have to do something for each other, but they do it just because. His exact words were “ if we would break up I will know how to get together with another one and have the same kind of relationship “, while I would do something for a girl because they become a main part of my life to the point that I will have a hard time letting go of this person. Part of the reason being me thinking that I would lose something about myself if I would lose her. personally, I don’t think neither are doing it wrong though.
Long story short, today’s video showed me why I think how I think and why we have different perspectives about love and relationships.
And that’s exactly why I love to see this particular game being played by you. Thank you for your content.
It's fascinating that this is the path where the Cold shows the most feelings. If you slay or leave the Princess alone at the end, he seems almost heartbroken and disappointed.
"Everyone, the writers and the developers" You know, those two groups of people are... two people? I mean, the credits is like 5 people long, and that is with the composer.
Also if you're going to get HEA next I recommend you ask her questions untill the "stay here" options appear rather than just going up and then telling her to stay
If the same route had a slightly different development, then instead Voice of the Cold, it could have been Voice of the Broken. And I think the Broken brings more meaning to this route, showing compassion for the princess and continuing to stay here for her sake, despite the fact that he was always considered the weakest and most useless of all the voices.
Thank you for being the Voice of the Stubborn while making and remaking this video. It was worth the effort.
Oh geez, yeah, next video needs to be the route you're aiming for. This one almost feels like studying for finals.
Thank you Brady for trying to repair the gameplay and capture it accurately, appreciate it :D
This particular Fury path is my favorite. Love the convo between the Cold just brushing everything aside and actually challenging the Princess to make him feel something...and even THIS ONE CAN'T DO IT...AFTER TORTURING US FOR ETERNITY...It's absolutely insane, then she relents and we can heal .... I love it.
Aside from the game being fun and all,I found this episode very...useful,as I am often struggling to reach my loved one,being left hopeless and feeling unheard
The concept of "you and me vs. the problem" sounds like what I've been trying to find,the solution to the conflict...I'll try to implement it and see what happens
Oh, I didn't know you could reach the Fury via the Adversary! I thought that was just a possible sequel to The Tower. But it kinda makes sense... After all, the Princess transforms into what you perceive her to be. From the MC standpoint of view, the Adversary might have seemed as a grotesque hulking monstrosity hellbent on violence.
Basically, you hesitated but still chose to fight. She became stronger and fought back, but since you tried to "finish the job" (stubbornly) and managed to kill each other, she became an equal, a rival, a challenge. Then you decided "no, fuck this, I'm not fighting", but since she was already ingrained with the desire to fight, she fought anyway. And you stood there (coldly) taking it all, shifting your perspective, she proved to be even more savage and "Furious" than you expected. By choosing not to fight back, you chose to see her with eyes filled with hope of fixing her, but that hope got crushed and subconsciously that must have made her look too far gone to be fixed.
(talking about the MC point of view, not the professional therapist point of view, of course)
1:05:58 Oh it was the OPPOSITE of quick, huh Brady?
1:08:55 Oh that was a LOADED request, huh Brady?
I'm so glad you played after Pristine Cut released, lmao
"How convenient. As soon as you get an answer to life's great mysteries, it doesn't count" now if that isn' a line worth using against people denying science
this was almost exactly my first route (I was horrifically invested in the gory unwinding though lol) I ended with this broken fury, and seeing her like that broke my heart. I love the fury route so much, she's what made me love the princess. sorry that the meat isn't really your thing :(
Only at 44:50 but. Coming out of a lifelong battle with a narcissistic mother, I really resonated with the things you said just before that. I could feel her picking fights with me, but she always said that I was the one making arguments. I did do what you were explaining, I tried to point out specific things that she’d do that hurt me or led to conflicts, but I had two major issues with it. One, she would deflect, say out wasn’t true or say that I was making excuses. And two… I just straight up could never remember the real life examples. I’ve always struggled with my memory, so when I try to recall things even to this day, I can only remember the way I felt and not what actually happened. Like I said, I’ve left that arrangement already, but it still makes it difficult to navigate disagreements with people who are open to conversations like this because I really can only say “you’re too angry sometimes” or “you misinterpret me all the time” without being able to remember the exact times that it’s happened. Makes it very frustrating on my end, frustrated with myself mostly.
Your humour and insightful breakdown on human psychology makes this my fave series!
I have taken down notes every video - feels like I’m back in university, but taking only the courses and prof that I love
God damnit this was my relationship I got out of 1 year ago. I’m glad we’ve remained friends but it became clear we were very dependent on one another and not happy in our lives. We did care about each other but a lot of that resentment built up and had to be communicated and worked past
This one. This one got me. The last time she said "are you still there? Are you still you?" and her voice wasn't angry anymore, it was broken. I actually started crying. I've been in this marraige. This was my ex and I. And that was the moment I figured it out that she just wanted you to feel the pain you've caused her. My ex and I got to this moment where we just wanted each other to hurt. We finally realized this. We were too far gone to stay together, but we didn't hate each other anymore. We left the cabin together.
@chrisg6654